I posted this in the Michael Moore tribe here is the link, read it, ITS FUN
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/thread...2bda22f
Ok, well all I hear are people in here saying, "GIVE ME SOME
FACTS THAT MOORE IS MISLEADING PEOPLE OR LYING!!!"
Well I think the reason no one has answered your question is b/c it takes so damn long to write a rebuttal. There is no simple short explanation that could prove Moore misleads and sometimes flat out lies. You have to set up the scene and explain some history and true proven facts before you can understand how misleading his works are.
You guys are looking at one side and not the other (ONLY Moore’s side). How can you say that what he says is all true if you don’t look at it from anther point of view? I have seen Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11. After that I saw FahernHYPE 9/11, and then read Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man. So I can judge on what to believe and what not to believe. I have seen both sides. Just b/c everything that he says sounds so nice and true, doesn’t mean it is. I took the time to watch his movies form a neutral prospective, why don’t you take some time and do some research about the man you believe to be so great and see if he is telling the truth?!?! The book Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, has strait out FACTS proving that almost all his movies have twisted facts and misleading film editing. I was like HOLY %*$# when I read the book and saw FahrenHYPE 9/11 explaining the true Michael Moore. The authors are not just some dumb right wing guys trying to trash Moore just for the hell of it. And its not one sided bull *$%#, ITS FACTS. I SWEAR TO YOU! I liked Moore at one time, I loved how he made people look stupid, the way he asked questions, and the ideas he came up with. I started to hear stuff like, “he’s a liar and a propagandist and a big fat moron.” I said to my self, “what the hell is wrong with these people? Why do you hate him so much?” So I did some research. To know the truth about something/ someone you have to hear what the critics are saying. You have to hear BOTH SIDES! You guys wonder why there are so many republicans that hate Moore. Umm well b/c they are doing they’re research. Well some are just plan old morons that say, "Oh he’s a far leftist? Oh… well I hate him then;" with out even knowing anything about him. I am a very open minded person that loves the truth and not being mislead, which is why I decided to do so much research about Moore. Unfortunately after all the research I discovered, he is very, very misleading. When I saw Bowling for Columbine I actually started to hate Charlton Heston. I DON’T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM! But from what Moore showed in his movie I thought he was a racist and a moron. I am definitely not the only one that thought that after seeing Bowling for Columbine. It is just soooo wrong to do that to a man that has done nothing wrong; he did not disserve what Moore portrayed him to be in his movie.
Some pages from the book, Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man
Hardy and Clarke say; “Any examination of the film reveals a deep and perhaps pathological obsession on Moore’s part, driven by his apparent hatred of the actor Charlton Heston, the president of the National Rifle Association (NRA).
Moore’s personal attack on Heston is woven into three separate segments of Bowling. In each segment, Moore summons all of his creative powers—which to be fair, are considerable—to mislead the viewer into a highly negative views of his target. By the time he’s done, he has even managed the considerable feat of portraying Heston—once a leader of the civil rights movement, a personal friend of Martin Luther King, and a regular guest speaker for the Congress of Racial Equality—as a racist.”
FACT: Heston personally broke another Hollywood color barrier. In the late 1960s, sixteen states (including Delaware and Indiana) still had laws on the books forbidding interracial marriage, laws that were finally invalidated by a 1967 Supreme Court decision. Even after this, Hollywood had an unwritten rule: no interracial romances. (This led to the ridiculous spectacle of white actresses like Ava Gardner and Yvonne De Carlo playing black women on screen.) Charlton Heston broke that barrier with Omega Man. Not one of his better flicks, but in it he as hero and black heroine Rosalind Cash (hand – picked by Heston for that role) wind up kissing – and, the screen play strongly suggested, sharing a bed as well.
FACT: If Moore wanted to pick a target at which to fling a charge of racism. Heston is about the last fellow he should have chosen. Most of Moore’s viewers were born long after the events Heston is recalling. To them, the civil rights struggle consists of sound bytes of Martin Luther King speaking, people singing “We Shall Overcome,” and everyone coming to their senses. Heston, on the other hand, remembers what it was really like. Lots of people died. It was a time of strife and Violence, despite the ultimately positive results and despite how worthwhile the struggle. Heston’s statement reflects his memory of this.
Did Moore do any research on Heston before he ripped him a new one? I guess not.
Remember in Bowling When Moore says, “Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association.”
As one reviewer put it, “It seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy.” This portrayal is, in fact, false.
FACT: “Let’s put this Denver “large pro-gun rally” in its real context. It was not a pro-gun demonstration called as a response to Columbine. But rather an annual meeting of the members of the NRA, whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.
FACT: Annual meetings of the members of a nonprofit corporation are regulated by law, in the interests of ensuring corporate democracy. Depending on the bylaws, members have the right to debate, pass resolutions, amend bylaws, or choose officers at the meeting. The NRA is a New York corporation, and New York nonprofit corporation law requires an annual meeting of the members.
FACT: The New York statutes also rule out the NRA’s changing the location or date of the meeting on short notice. To change the time or place, ten days’ advance notice had to be given to all voting members. The Columbine tragedy occurred just eleven days before the meeting and the NRA had 4 million members nationwide who would have had to be notified in the same day’s mail.
Moore even messes with the editing to make Heston say things that he really didn’t say.
Right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston’s “I have only five words for you…cold, dead hands” statement, making it seem directed at them. Moore then inserts an interlude – a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He cant go directly to Hestons REAL Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston changed in mid – speech from a purple tie and a lavender shirt to a white shirt and a red tie. And the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore had to separate the two segments with a visual distraction.
Moore’s second edit (coverd by splicing in a panoramic shot of the crow) deletes Heston’s announcement about scaling back the conventions events. In the actual speech, Heston went on to say, “As you know, we’ve cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands”
Moore then cuts to Heston’s response to the Mayor’s request: “I said to the Mayer: As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don’t come here? We’re already here!”
Moore actually puts one edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at the end! Hears what Heston really said, as a reference to his own World War II vet status: “I said to the mayor, well, my replay to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was18 years old. Since then, I’ve run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing.”
Moore cuts it after “I said to the mayor” and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: “As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.” He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing Heston.
You think you are hearing Heston in a continuous audio stream, but that’s just what Moore wanted you to believe.
There is so much more its ridicules. Almost everything Moore says about Heston in Bowling is a lie. In the book Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man it explains it all. I mean who the hell edits film to make people say certain things? Do your own research, watch Bowling for Columbine and look at Hestons shirt, it changes, see for your self.
This is nothing compared to what Moore did in the rest of his movies. There is so much more I could talk about but I think I am done for now. Maybe next time.
www.moorelies.com
www.mooreexposed.com
David
sanfrancisco.tribe.net/thread...2bda22f
Ok, well all I hear are people in here saying, "GIVE ME SOME
FACTS THAT MOORE IS MISLEADING PEOPLE OR LYING!!!"
Well I think the reason no one has answered your question is b/c it takes so damn long to write a rebuttal. There is no simple short explanation that could prove Moore misleads and sometimes flat out lies. You have to set up the scene and explain some history and true proven facts before you can understand how misleading his works are.
You guys are looking at one side and not the other (ONLY Moore’s side). How can you say that what he says is all true if you don’t look at it from anther point of view? I have seen Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, and Fahrenheit 9/11. After that I saw FahernHYPE 9/11, and then read Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man. So I can judge on what to believe and what not to believe. I have seen both sides. Just b/c everything that he says sounds so nice and true, doesn’t mean it is. I took the time to watch his movies form a neutral prospective, why don’t you take some time and do some research about the man you believe to be so great and see if he is telling the truth?!?! The book Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, has strait out FACTS proving that almost all his movies have twisted facts and misleading film editing. I was like HOLY %*$# when I read the book and saw FahrenHYPE 9/11 explaining the true Michael Moore. The authors are not just some dumb right wing guys trying to trash Moore just for the hell of it. And its not one sided bull *$%#, ITS FACTS. I SWEAR TO YOU! I liked Moore at one time, I loved how he made people look stupid, the way he asked questions, and the ideas he came up with. I started to hear stuff like, “he’s a liar and a propagandist and a big fat moron.” I said to my self, “what the hell is wrong with these people? Why do you hate him so much?” So I did some research. To know the truth about something/ someone you have to hear what the critics are saying. You have to hear BOTH SIDES! You guys wonder why there are so many republicans that hate Moore. Umm well b/c they are doing they’re research. Well some are just plan old morons that say, "Oh he’s a far leftist? Oh… well I hate him then;" with out even knowing anything about him. I am a very open minded person that loves the truth and not being mislead, which is why I decided to do so much research about Moore. Unfortunately after all the research I discovered, he is very, very misleading. When I saw Bowling for Columbine I actually started to hate Charlton Heston. I DON’T EVEN KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIM! But from what Moore showed in his movie I thought he was a racist and a moron. I am definitely not the only one that thought that after seeing Bowling for Columbine. It is just soooo wrong to do that to a man that has done nothing wrong; he did not disserve what Moore portrayed him to be in his movie.
Some pages from the book, Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man
Hardy and Clarke say; “Any examination of the film reveals a deep and perhaps pathological obsession on Moore’s part, driven by his apparent hatred of the actor Charlton Heston, the president of the National Rifle Association (NRA).
Moore’s personal attack on Heston is woven into three separate segments of Bowling. In each segment, Moore summons all of his creative powers—which to be fair, are considerable—to mislead the viewer into a highly negative views of his target. By the time he’s done, he has even managed the considerable feat of portraying Heston—once a leader of the civil rights movement, a personal friend of Martin Luther King, and a regular guest speaker for the Congress of Racial Equality—as a racist.”
FACT: Heston personally broke another Hollywood color barrier. In the late 1960s, sixteen states (including Delaware and Indiana) still had laws on the books forbidding interracial marriage, laws that were finally invalidated by a 1967 Supreme Court decision. Even after this, Hollywood had an unwritten rule: no interracial romances. (This led to the ridiculous spectacle of white actresses like Ava Gardner and Yvonne De Carlo playing black women on screen.) Charlton Heston broke that barrier with Omega Man. Not one of his better flicks, but in it he as hero and black heroine Rosalind Cash (hand – picked by Heston for that role) wind up kissing – and, the screen play strongly suggested, sharing a bed as well.
FACT: If Moore wanted to pick a target at which to fling a charge of racism. Heston is about the last fellow he should have chosen. Most of Moore’s viewers were born long after the events Heston is recalling. To them, the civil rights struggle consists of sound bytes of Martin Luther King speaking, people singing “We Shall Overcome,” and everyone coming to their senses. Heston, on the other hand, remembers what it was really like. Lots of people died. It was a time of strife and Violence, despite the ultimately positive results and despite how worthwhile the struggle. Heston’s statement reflects his memory of this.
Did Moore do any research on Heston before he ripped him a new one? I guess not.
Remember in Bowling When Moore says, “Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association.”
As one reviewer put it, “It seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy.” This portrayal is, in fact, false.
FACT: “Let’s put this Denver “large pro-gun rally” in its real context. It was not a pro-gun demonstration called as a response to Columbine. But rather an annual meeting of the members of the NRA, whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.
FACT: Annual meetings of the members of a nonprofit corporation are regulated by law, in the interests of ensuring corporate democracy. Depending on the bylaws, members have the right to debate, pass resolutions, amend bylaws, or choose officers at the meeting. The NRA is a New York corporation, and New York nonprofit corporation law requires an annual meeting of the members.
FACT: The New York statutes also rule out the NRA’s changing the location or date of the meeting on short notice. To change the time or place, ten days’ advance notice had to be given to all voting members. The Columbine tragedy occurred just eleven days before the meeting and the NRA had 4 million members nationwide who would have had to be notified in the same day’s mail.
Moore even messes with the editing to make Heston say things that he really didn’t say.
Right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston’s “I have only five words for you…cold, dead hands” statement, making it seem directed at them. Moore then inserts an interlude – a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He cant go directly to Hestons REAL Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston changed in mid – speech from a purple tie and a lavender shirt to a white shirt and a red tie. And the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore had to separate the two segments with a visual distraction.
Moore’s second edit (coverd by splicing in a panoramic shot of the crow) deletes Heston’s announcement about scaling back the conventions events. In the actual speech, Heston went on to say, “As you know, we’ve cancelled the festivities, the fellowship we normally enjoy at our annual gatherings. This decision has perplexed a few and inconvenienced thousands”
Moore then cuts to Heston’s response to the Mayor’s request: “I said to the Mayer: As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don’t come here? We’re already here!”
Moore actually puts one edit right in the middle of the first sentence, and another at the end! Hears what Heston really said, as a reference to his own World War II vet status: “I said to the mayor, well, my replay to the mayor is, I volunteered for the war they wanted me to attend when I was18 years old. Since then, I’ve run small errands for my country, from Nigeria to Vietnam. I know many of you here in this room could say the same thing.”
Moore cuts it after “I said to the mayor” and attaches a sentence from the end of the next paragraph: “As Americans, we’re free to travel wherever we want in our broad land.” He hides the deletion by cutting to footage of protestors and a photo of the Mayor before going back and showing Heston.
You think you are hearing Heston in a continuous audio stream, but that’s just what Moore wanted you to believe.
There is so much more its ridicules. Almost everything Moore says about Heston in Bowling is a lie. In the book Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man it explains it all. I mean who the hell edits film to make people say certain things? Do your own research, watch Bowling for Columbine and look at Hestons shirt, it changes, see for your self.
This is nothing compared to what Moore did in the rest of his movies. There is so much more I could talk about but I think I am done for now. Maybe next time.
www.moorelies.com
www.mooreexposed.com
David
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SF Bay Area
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